Friday Rant: Of Waves, Quadrants and Vendor Comparisons
In the vendor review process for this Wave after Forrester completed an initial draft, I received calls from multiple vendors who questioned the objectivity of Forrester. I responded in every case that I have no reason to doubt their objectivity -- quite the opposite in fact, I hold their overall objectivity in very high regard. But I do doubt their research process and approach given the result it has provided to the market. Now, don't get me wrong. There are some vendors who, relatively speaking, are right where they deserve to be (e.g., I always recommend that for companies who can afford them, to shortlist Ariba and Emptoris from a sourcing perspective). Whether one is better than the other when it comes to e-sourcing will really come down to the specific needs of an individual customer. But it's always a good idea to look at both.
Where I believe this Wave really misses the boat is in their analysis of the ERP providers and other best of breed vendors. Now, Forrester will say they measured vendors against a defined set of criteria. But ask yourself: how was this criteria determined to begin with? And please bear in mind I'm talking not only about the criteria that they use to rank vendors, but to allow them into the graphical Wave in the first place. Most of it does not come from real-world experience gained from performing sourcing or being deeply involved in deal flow.
It comes from a few places. First, it comes from analysts getting together in a brainstorming session to define what they think important. Second, it comes from asking vendors -- and listening to vendor briefings -- and trying to cull key metrics by which to measure providers. And third -- and all too rarely -- it comes from asking practitioners what they think should matter. It should also come from a constant monitoring of deals to see how vendors are stacking up and who is winning and why. But this level of criteria determination requires that analysts actually get into the deal flow, advising at least a few companies per week, not only on initial vendor selection but staying in the process throughout.
Because Forrester failed, in my view, to gain an accurate picture of the ERP and best of breed providers and how they actually perform in real customer RFP situations, the ultimate Wave outside of Ariba and Emptoris was skewed (and I even have some issues with how they were placed where they were, but more on that later). For example, where the heck is Iasta? They're off the map, that's where, because they did not meet some "defined set of criteria". I'm sorry for the vulgarity of my language in advance, but the exclusion of Iasta is complete bull. Iasta is one of the fastest growing e-sourcing vendors in the market and is the choice of many consulting firms I talk to on a regular basis (sourcing consultants know what is needed in e-sourcing -- trust me on this one). Moreover, Iasta is also in many of the deals that Emptoris and Ariba ultimately end up in. Their exclusion baffles me.
But aside from leaving out Iasta because they did not meet an arbitrary ranking criteria -- which alone shows that Forrester is not in the industry e-sourcing deal flow on a daily basis, because if they were, they would have in part defined their criteria around those vendors who make it into deals -- Forrester also falls flat on their relative rating of Oracle to others. I suspect that Forrester was rating Oracle 12R which we'd probably all agree, is a decent little product. But it lacks many of the core capabilities that have been standard among best of breed providers when it comes to negotiation management, bid analysis, optimization and the like. In fact, Oracle has admittedly remedied a handful of these fundamental shortcomings in R12.1, a product that is not even available in the market yet (but is due out sometime in 2009). How did Oracle score where they did? Because Forrester liked the "tactical" aspect of what they do, whatever that means.
On a different but related rant, to assign 50% of the rating to "company strategy" is absurd on a range of levels (50% of their rating criteria is based on strategy, not product). Why is Forrester in a better position than customers and shareholders to judge strategy? SAP is a prime example. SAP gets knocked for not having a vision relative to Oracle and others. I agree on this front talking to the rank and file SRM team members. But go up a level in the organization and they are one of the more forward thinking organizations at the moment when it comes to what they might produce next. And consider Emptoris -- who scores the highest rating for "strategy". Emptoris' strategy for the past 18 months has largely consisted of its CEO going out and trying to convince a number of companies to take his paper (considering they've not been able to do cash deals, at least until now). That's worked really well, hasn't it? Seen many deals work? Now, not that deals are inherently good -- they're not. But let's be honest and realistic, where do analysts gain the expertise and insight to rate a vendor's overall strategy? Maybe discuss it, but not invent a relative rating.
Perhaps the most telling measure why we should all discount this Wave is that customer satisfaction represents only 10% of the findings. This tells me that either Forrester did not do their homework when it comes to checking enough references or that they do not know how products are actually used in the market. Customer satisfaction, in my view, is one of the most important factors I consider when recommending products to others.
I could go on for pages with other ideas about how I believe providers ought to be evaluated, but I'll compress a few final thoughts into this paragraph. Take the rating of the Peoplesoft product. In my view, it's junk relative to the market when it comes to sourcing (ask five PeopleSoft customers who have also looked at other vendors how it stacks up and tell me if they say anything different). In services procurement and P2P, PeopleSoft fares better, but even to put it on the map for sourcing is crazy, let alone close to SAP (which has a vastly superior product in functional and customer use-case comparison -- in fact a set of products). And what about Zycus? They have a few sourcing customers, but the product is new -- certainly not worthy of being on a comparative map yet until it achieves a longer track record. I also take issue with BravoSolution's placement because I know how they've beaten numerous vendors on capability and references who perform better for some reason in this report. And what of Global eProcure and Perfect? Maybe not the very best products, but they certainly deserve a chance to make it onto the field, so to speak, especially relative to Siemens/UGS and Agentrics, who make their way into only a tiny percentage of overall deals.
Rather than go on with my rant, I'll get on with my day. What do you think of this Wave and similar methodologies in general? How can we improve them and make them useful when it comes to both shortlists and practitioner product evaluations? There's got to be a way for these to work. I've long been a fan of the KLAS ranking approaches in healthcare technology, a field I've done some work where I've actually found analyst rankings useful in numerous ways in learning about vendors and products. KLAS relies specifically on customer feedback and analysis for their input. What do you think?
- Jason Busch
















Pardon me while I blow our own horn here - since we weren't on Forrester's list either.
In 2008 alone, AECsoft landed exactly 10 esourcing deals - including a few esourcing solution expansions with existing clients.
At the moment, AECsoft USA has displaced Procuri/Ariba several times: examples are KBR, Ceres, Celgene, and Marathon Oil.
Suffice to say that Forrester should have looked at our solution as well. It is easily tailored to client needs, has a proven track record with some of the largest of the Fortune 500 firms, and integrates well with all major ERP and A/P solutions.
We have several clients that source over $1 billion annually using AECsoft's esourcing solution - it holds up to serious enterprise use.
Again, apologies for the blatant self-promotion, but I think the above facts support your valuation of the Forrester report.
Thank you for pointing out that the analyst emperor has no clothes.
First, a defense of these types of reports. Customers just don't have the time to look at a large set of products in any detail. They can only afford to look at 3 or so products in detail, therefore they need help forming a shortlist. If they have Oracle or SAP ERP, they have to consdier those products, and that's one of the shortlist members right there. Choosing the other two from a set of 10 or 20 is a pretty arbitrary exercise for which reports like these give some significant help.
Forrester has a "Wave" methodology that's actually quite rigorous if followed. Unforunately, my experience was that the methodology was ignored in large part. Worse, some vendors' products were examined in detail (e.g. demos), whereas my former product had *never been seen by the Forrester analyst*. Nor had any references been contacted. It's this differentiated treatment of vendors that infuriated me, and biased the results of the report beyond repair.
It takes a lot of work to differentiate many products in a mature market. My sense is that Forrester (yet again) took some shortcuts that are getting called out by Jason and others. That's a shame for the customers who have a real need for this research.
Ariba's earnings per share => negative $0.24
Talk about destroying capital - look at ARBA's performance over the years, that's just sad.
AECsoft USA on the other hand is solidly profitable, with no external debt load, over 10-year track record, over 200 clients (mainly Fortune 500), both revenue and profits grew nicely in 2008 - sure, if those numbers look bad to you, well, we can live with them. :-)
So, if you want a supplier that is NOT at risk - you could do worse than talk with us. :-)
What I like to think these reports may do is to help us grow the market for products such as ours, especially in the field of optimisation where billions of dollars of savings are still being left on the table by many companies who still simply "don't get it".
So, am I unhappy that my company is not included in this report? Yes of course I am, especially since we continue to win business from the likes of Ariba, Emptoris and CombineNet..., "free marketing" is always very welcome. I guess I can live with it though because for me the real test of a product is the clients' endorsement and continued support, and we are getting that in bucket loads.
Do I think a set of results that only emphasise the "client factors" to the tune of 10% is good? No, of course not, its an old but true addage, but lets not kid ourselves, only the client view counts in the end.
We supply our software to a number of sourcing consultants and we also offer sourcing consulting of our own to manufacturers and retailers. Im very pleased to say that our sourcing consultant clients think as we do....the end user will chose who they want to work with and it is up to us to market our products and services, not have Forrester do it for us.
I can't help thinking that if Forrester wanted to provide a really special service to their potential clients they would of course do a more thorough evaluation of the market, but I recognise there are lots of people making claims for their products and it is a hard task to sort out the wheat from the chaff.
I would suggest a good starting point would be to ask the top 500 companies in the WORLD who they have heard of, who they use right now. Then develop a methodology that really does ask those clients to explain why they made their choices. Sure, that would be hard but it would create great value, manufacturers and retailers like to hear why their peers made their vendor choices.
Now I really would pay for that, as would most current and future potential users of our software I suspect!
Sorry, but I have to disagree. It's not hard at all to sort out the wheat from the chaff if you ( a) understand technology* and ( b) actually take a good look at the product.
That's why the doctor DOES NOT evaluate or review any offering from a vendor who won't do a demo. Power Points are nothing but propoganda, and if the product has value, it shouldn't be hard to see it inside of an hour. If the product truly solves a problem and is well designed around the problem, it should be easy to see real value inside of 15 minutes.
If detailed product reviews by people who truly understood technology were the norm at these analyst firms, and not marketing material review with results slanted in favor of the highest sponsor as much as they possibly can be, even though the reports wouldn't be as ueful as ones that, as you suggest, truly surveyed the end customer for their views and insights, they would still be valuable, and even worth paying for. At least you'd be able to shortlist the most likely vendors who could solve your problems based upon real insight and not just marketing propoganda and then, after live demos from each of your shortlisted vendor, make an informed decision with some third party weight behind it.
But alas, I think I doth again ask for too much.
At least Jason has taken it upon his shoulders to keep ranting about this. Someone needs to!
* You really, really, really should understand technology if you're a technology analyst, but I have to admit, it certainly doesn't seem to be a job requirement at any of the big analyst firms. And this fact is made even more clear by the fact that some of the analysts are now blogging. As much as I'd like to join Jason in welcoming the analysts to the blogsphere, between (in my view) a relative lack of insights to-date and a glut of "you can read more in my / our X report", where you only have access to X if you're a paying client and / or can afford to fork over a grand or two for research or opinions that many of the big sourcing consultancies and blogs are making available for free, I'm finding it hard to welcome them with open arms. With the exception of the early adopters, like Phil Fersht of "Horses for Sources", who was blogging real insights before blogging was cool, for the most part, I don't think the "new breed" of analyst bloggers truly grasp the blogsphere yet.
Former vendor is mistaken, btw, we researched all vendors equally rigorously. Objectivity is vital, as you & I have discussed before, Jason. Its not trivial to achieve, but it helps that our model doesnt involve vendors sponsoring our reports nor advertising on our Web site.
We excluded some good products, its true. In some cases the vendor chose not to participate, in others it didnt meet our selection criteria, such as annual revenue. Vendors such as Thomas and Garry are always welcome to brief us about their products and explain when we should recommend them to our clients. Go to www.forrester.com/briefing to ask to speak with my colleagues and me. We sometimes help clients add their own scoring of a product that wasn't in our Wave to the decision support tool when they customize it.
As you wrote, Jason, its important to assess the individual client's needs. The Wave helps clients get quickly to a shortlist of products that best fit those needs, and also helps them make, and justify, the final decision.
Thank you for chiming in and adding to the commentary. I think that only good can come from more transparency, discussion and debate about vendor comparisons in general.
The best use for these reports is for companies to get a quick view into who the players are in a particular space. It is really the company's responsibility to do due diligence to pick the vendor that meets their budget and risk.
When a news publication distributes an article, it is obligated to call-out any relationships it has with other organizations discussed in the article. So, for example, if the Wall Street Journal writes an article about News Corp, it makes sure the reader knows that there is a financial relationship as News Corp owns the Wall Street Journal. These announcements publicly acknowledge the potential for biases – either for or against the organization. It allows the reader to make their own judgments knowing they have full disclosure about the relationship.
Wouldn’t it be interesting if analyst organizations publicly acknowledge paying vendor-customers the way that news organizations do? That way readers looking for unbiased analysis can be assured they have all the facts that may or may not impact the analysis.
In the spirit of full disclosure, I work for Iasta.
Except that I've yet to see a report that hasn't missed at least two or three important vendors just because they didn't make one of the 6-10 "critical" requirements, such as annual revenue, number of clients in a certain market/vertical, feature "x" (which might not be important at all) ... which are often not that critical at all if you need a particular type of solution to fit in with your current business processes and solve your business problems and they are one of the only vendors (or only vendor) that provides a solution that can be cost-effectively customized to meet your needs ...
Now, I'm not saying that any particular (type of) vendor should get high rankings, it's their methodology, and the analyst firm can design it to rank whomever they wish to be #1 (if they so desire), but since they continually miss vendors whom Jason as I regularly see as emerging or key players in the space, especially to mid-size and smaller buying companies, I find it hard to say that it's worth a grand or two for a list of players in a space when you can get a list for free on the Sourcing Innovation Resource site in 50+ categories (see this page: http://www.sourcinginnovation.com/resources/Compan... or http://tinyurl.com/cp5bjm), do your own research, and form your own opinion.
Now, if they
(a) took the new Forrester approach and provided completely customizable and adjustable spreadsheets which were easy to augment with dimensions that mattered to you
(b) listed all the vendors they didn't review who might also make your cut, overviewed their offering, and specifically indicated why they didn't make the cut so that you would know who they were and be able to decide whether or not you needed to look at them
(c) came up with the criteria by focussing on surveys of end users and independent experts, and not what you get when you intersect the definitions given to you by big vendors with large marketing departments who can afford to brief analyst firms regularly (as this results in a solution definition and feature list that, by default, favors the larger vendors regardless of how unbiased the analyst firm is in their assessment) ...
then ... THEN ... we would have something that would be worth thousands of dollars, because not only would you have deep insight that you couldn't get from your average blogger, consulting firm, professional organization, or publication, but you would have deep insight you could not recreate with a few days of research by a senior resource, which would make the cost of the report a lot less than what it would cost you to recreate the same intelligence in house.
But I guess I should stop complaining. No one listens to a squeaky wheel in a down economy because grease costs money.
Keep ranting Jason! Keep ranting! One way or another, the analysts firms will eventually hear you.
Let's not forget that Jason has been disclosing his affiliations since day one! (see "Client Disclosures" under "About Spend Matters" on the sidebar)
And other bloggers, like myself, quickly followed suit.