Vista, Office and Outlook 2007 are a Nightmare
Hey, category managers in charge of IT spend. Want to make yourself a friend of the business for life? I've got a secret for you: don't rubberstamp your CIO's decision to upgrade to Vista or Office 2007. In fact, tack on a big "reject" to the request or the requisition. And don't do it to save money. Do it to save your hide.
Having spent approximately 25 of my last 40 waking hours trying to get Vista and Office 2007 to perform at the level of my previous operating system and desktop environment, I can honestly say that it's an absolute travesty that Microsoft would have released such a half-baked product, having put billions into its development. In fact, my friends, colleagues and clients will probably attest to my slower than average response rates via email recently (I simply have not had the patience or the time to write emails while the new composer catches up with my typing).
Here's a little backdrop in case the Microsoft blog readers and commenters -- yes, they actually have a group that read and try to spin negative blogs -- try to apply their marketing magic to this post. First, I'm running Vista Business and Office Professional 2007 on a brand new $2800 Dell M1210 notebook (about the fastest small notebook you can buy) with 2GB of memory and just about every upgrade. Second, I am not a gamer and my hard drive is only about 25% full (even with all of the file migrations). Third, Vista Business and Office 2007 Professional was shipped in an OEM agreement on the Dell (so in theory, Dell should have tested it as well).
The problem -- which is absolutely inexcusable -- is that Office 2007 (Outlook, specifically) crawls, even on this superfast machine. The hard-drive is also constantly in motion, slowing things down even more. I'm not alone in these observations. You can read other Office 2007 horror stories here and here. Despite a small .PST file -- I reduced mine from close to a gig to less than 150 MB -- my Intel Centrino Duo-driven notebook chugs along like a 386 trying to run an application originally written for a mainframe system. Even such tasks as composing a simple email are delayed by a few seconds before my typed words ultimately appear on the screen (and send / receives and related activities take an eternity).
As a somewhat technical person, I've followed just about every fix recommended, but still the performance is completely unacceptable, even on a machine that is at the higher end of what Vista will ever run on this year and next. As of tonight, I plan to "downgrade" back to Office 2003 and XP. I'd also like to send Redmond an invoice for my lost productivity, but alas, monopolies such as MSFT would probably laugh at such a thing.
Still, if I can discourage companies from taking the plunge based on my experience, at least I will have saved my fellow procurement and operations brethren from Vista and Office 2007 hell. If IT comes knocking -- or you have plans to integrate your ERP SRM environment with Office -- tell them to read this post before wasting a minute on Redmond's joke of a product.
Update: I followed the advice of a comment to uninstall the Cyberlink Outlook Addin and things have improved. It is now marginally acceptable (and Safe Mode flies at the old rate of Office 2003). But even now, Outlook 2007 is still not close to the performance of Outlook 2003 on a two year old machine. However, at least it is workable (with every possible feature, viewer, and the indexing turned off). When I have more time to figure out the trouble ticket with Dell next week, I'll probably end of downgrading to XP and Office 2003 just to improve the performance or I'll send back the machine under the 30 day warranty. But now at least I don't have to rely on my web mail for the rest of the week. Alas, I will now say that Outlook 2007 in Safe Mode finally gives Outlook 2003 a run for its money in the speed category. Bench test, anyone?
- Jason Busch
Having spent approximately 25 of my last 40 waking hours trying to get Vista and Office 2007 to perform at the level of my previous operating system and desktop environment, I can honestly say that it's an absolute travesty that Microsoft would have released such a half-baked product, having put billions into its development. In fact, my friends, colleagues and clients will probably attest to my slower than average response rates via email recently (I simply have not had the patience or the time to write emails while the new composer catches up with my typing).
Here's a little backdrop in case the Microsoft blog readers and commenters -- yes, they actually have a group that read and try to spin negative blogs -- try to apply their marketing magic to this post. First, I'm running Vista Business and Office Professional 2007 on a brand new $2800 Dell M1210 notebook (about the fastest small notebook you can buy) with 2GB of memory and just about every upgrade. Second, I am not a gamer and my hard drive is only about 25% full (even with all of the file migrations). Third, Vista Business and Office 2007 Professional was shipped in an OEM agreement on the Dell (so in theory, Dell should have tested it as well).
The problem -- which is absolutely inexcusable -- is that Office 2007 (Outlook, specifically) crawls, even on this superfast machine. The hard-drive is also constantly in motion, slowing things down even more. I'm not alone in these observations. You can read other Office 2007 horror stories here and here. Despite a small .PST file -- I reduced mine from close to a gig to less than 150 MB -- my Intel Centrino Duo-driven notebook chugs along like a 386 trying to run an application originally written for a mainframe system. Even such tasks as composing a simple email are delayed by a few seconds before my typed words ultimately appear on the screen (and send / receives and related activities take an eternity).
As a somewhat technical person, I've followed just about every fix recommended, but still the performance is completely unacceptable, even on a machine that is at the higher end of what Vista will ever run on this year and next. As of tonight, I plan to "downgrade" back to Office 2003 and XP. I'd also like to send Redmond an invoice for my lost productivity, but alas, monopolies such as MSFT would probably laugh at such a thing.
Still, if I can discourage companies from taking the plunge based on my experience, at least I will have saved my fellow procurement and operations brethren from Vista and Office 2007 hell. If IT comes knocking -- or you have plans to integrate your ERP SRM environment with Office -- tell them to read this post before wasting a minute on Redmond's joke of a product.
Update: I followed the advice of a comment to uninstall the Cyberlink Outlook Addin and things have improved. It is now marginally acceptable (and Safe Mode flies at the old rate of Office 2003). But even now, Outlook 2007 is still not close to the performance of Outlook 2003 on a two year old machine. However, at least it is workable (with every possible feature, viewer, and the indexing turned off). When I have more time to figure out the trouble ticket with Dell next week, I'll probably end of downgrading to XP and Office 2003 just to improve the performance or I'll send back the machine under the 30 day warranty. But now at least I don't have to rely on my web mail for the rest of the week. Alas, I will now say that Outlook 2007 in Safe Mode finally gives Outlook 2003 a run for its money in the speed category. Bench test, anyone?
- Jason Busch
I take it that running with Aero turned off doesn't help the situation at all? It sounds more like it is just broken
So, if you want to be a hero - tell them to go Mac. Furthermore, I hear the new server / XRaid combos are going to leave Vista/Raid storage networks in the dust. (Linux is also an option - but you might need a few extra IT guys.)
The new ribbon menu can be tough to get used to, but it is designed to let you use ALL the features of Office. It IS more productive, specially Office.
Personally I will upgrade Office, not Vista though.
Sorry, you're having difficulty, but between Aero and the new UI in Office, I'm WAY ahead of where I was.
It will be a sad thing if Outlook's woes slow down the switch over to the otherwise stellar Word, Excel, and PowerPoint 2007. I don't even open Outlook anymore. I just use the school's Web-based exchange interface.
I run mine on a 2G RAM Dell D620 (brand new) and when Outlook checks for mail - all I can do is take a cup of coffee, but the keyboard is not recording my strokes.....
Most likely you have an incompatible driver or application. It's unfortunate, but those things happen when a major release like Vista comes around.
Vista is easily far faster than XP on my laptop, which is a Macbook Core 2 Duo, 2GB machine. And Outlook 2007 is much more responsive than 2003 ever was. Outlook 2003 had a tendency to lock up the UI while it was waiting for a background task to complete. Outlook 2007 has almost entirely eliminated that problem.
I have had absolutely painless experience with Vista on three laptops, two desktops and two UMPCs, as well as different computers in the office. Not a single negative experience - and no, I am not a Microsoft "plant" or anything else of the kind.
For the rest of you who are interested in Microsoft's latest OS and productivity suite, I can vouch that this is the most exciting OS Microsoft has put out since Windows 95. That combined with what you can do with MCE, and the .net 3.0 framework, will have you so glad you were not willing to be frightened by a soothsayer who has problems with doing research on the hardware he buys.
This post isn't even fair, he doesn't even discribe what other software "HE" has loaded onto the machine. At some point we all must quit being so melodramatic and speak the facts. Poor post in my humble opinion. Boo! Get readers with real work, save your drama for your mama.
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Do we feel we have shared teh Secrets??? at this point? I single installation issue? I don't even have a bleeding edge computer and my Vista + office + VS + Creative Studio is running blazing fast and yes I have VG + WOW games on it as well.
First, I'm a business user with enough of an enterprise technical background to be dangerous. I'm not an expert on MSFT (which is further proof that regular business users might have similar issues that require expensive IT involvement to fix what I've observed).
Second, this post is not a stunt -- far from it. It is one person's experience with what is a product which is clearly not ready for prime time (and has cost me now over 30 hours in lost productivity).
Third, my experience should be a wake-up call to others that Microsoft is still releasing products that are not yet ready to be released. Because I paid for this product personally, I have no qualms about passing judgment in such a public forum. If I was using a free version, I'd feel differently.
Microsoft's spin team is working overtime flogging bull shit at every article and blog to try and sell some of that mountain of shit software nobody is buying. Use your head when you see these posts. My friend Paul at Microsoft Redmond says the group has tripled since the launch and they have three shifts working now. Best estimates are there are near two hundred full time spinners and bullshitters on articles just like this every day..
Not only are there so many conflicting comments on this blog, but I have little faith now in the credibility of any of the comments!
So it is up to the consumer. And perhaps a litle more testing than Jason did (only one machine; please!)
We should try and make a list and cross reference for similar phrases and type of FUD, bull shit and spinn. Can anyone set up a web site so we can collect the usual lies phrases just to make it a little harder for Microsoft to spread their usual lies.
Lies are the single thing Microsoft knows and the only skill they have. I know not much of a skill to do stuff this brain dead.
most exciting OS Microsoft has put out since Windows 95.
what you can do with MCE, and the .net 3.0 framework
This post isn't even fair
I smell FUD.
reserve judgement
I've got vista and office 2007 on some very old and decidedly crappy hardware, and they run like a champ.
mere mortals who seem to be able to get things working with minimal effort
"Sorry guys, but after reading all the comments, I am left with one conclusion - that I will need to talk face to face with a techy who has done the upgrade and can show me first hand."
But I don't recommend Vista — and especially Office 2007 — for anyone. Use XP, as Jason says, you'll thank him. Use StarOffice/OpenOffice and their nifty ODF format. And if you're really want some excitement, load Ubuntu.
I've had the "opportunity" as a consultant to do many installs of Vista and Office 2007 across several SKUs. I've had it go beautifully and horribly on both newer and older hardware. The issue is usually drivers, quite often video drivers. In an effort to reduce the size of the driver database XP had to lug around and to support some changes in the core OS, they changed some of driver interfaces and got rid of a bunch of the legacy drivers. All in all it's a good thing, but hardware manufacturers are still playing catch up with their drivers.
Don't believe me? Take two laptops of similar build with the only difference being one has an ATI card and the other has a similar Nvidia card. Use stock video drivers from Vista. Let me know how it goes...
I wouldn't go back.
I've been running Office 2007 on XP for 3 months now on a 2GB Pentium D Optiplex, and for a couple of weeks on a 2GB ThinkPad Core Duo, and it seems to perform just fine.
I'm staying away from Vista for a while, just like I did with XP for a year or 2. But the new Office is great.
Outlook 2007 is turning into a pain on Vista though. It's noticeably slower on XP (I dual boot), to the point that Vista puts a "Not Responding" message on its title bar at times.
Have you any proof of this group of people who spin blog comments? If not, it's a clever way to dismiss anyone who disagrees with you!
Thanks!
Charlie Owen
Program Manager
Microsoft
I do understand your frustration, something that I have not experienced with a Dell notebook that originally came with Windows MC.
I have done a clean install, run office 2007, couple of IM's and I tell you, its a beauty.
Would suggest that you do a clean install - honestly.
Cheers!
Alpesh
With the exception of having to actually read the dialogs to determine that I needed to tell it to uninstall Outlook 2003 instead of attempting side-by-side of 2003 & 2007 versions, an hour later I was working with what has to be the most usable version of Office yet.
Even saved documents out in 2003 format and others were able to open them. And I'm considering ditching NEO Pro for the better organization mechanisms in Outlook 2007.
It occurs to me after reading your article again that you are making the same "leap" that Engadget made when they couldn't install Zune Marketplace on their older pc. Perhaps your MACHINE (or at least the hard drive) is no good ("The hard-drive is also constantly in motion").
- Outlook, specifically, is still crawling
- It was a clean install (not an upgrade)
- Dell had a trouble ticket as of 10:00 AM CST yesterday and hasnot yet responded to my request for a downgrade to Outlook 2003 (and or XP / Office 2003 if they recommend it)
- Dell will not take responsibility to get Outlook 2007 working properly (even though both Vista and Office 2007 were shipped with the machine as a clean install)
- When I ordered the machine 2 weeks ago, I paid for Vista Business and Office Professional and they were shipped pre-loaded on the notebook
- From all of my Google searches, it seems many others are having identical problems to me (now, we are most likely in the minority, but I am clearly not alone with these specific problems)
- I have followed all of the advice to disable search, reduce PST file size, etc. to speed things up. All of these activities helped a bit, but it is still crawling (literally, when I write an email, it takes Outlook 3-5 seconds to catch up to my writing. What i'm doing now is composing in Word and cutting and pasting into outlook for every email that I need to send).
- With search indexing turned off, the hard-drive has finally stopped crunching all of the time. But this has had no impact on the time-lag in outlook for all activities (the hard drive, in other words, is fine)
- I called MSFT and they wanted to charge me for support. They said it was a Dell issue as the product was shipped OEM and I had not purchased support from MSFT
That's it as of 6:49 AM. Thanks everyone for the comments and chiming in. At this point, all I want is to get a working Outlook application that does not slow down my day.
- Jason
http://www.roundtripsolutions.com/blog/2007/02/19/...
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&am...
http://www.itwriting.com/blog/?p=54
http://pauked.com/blog/?p=211
http://forums.techguy.org/business-applications/53...
Even more ironic? You can run Windows apps on a Mac using CrossOver, so the OS from Microsoft isn't even needed anymore on a new Mac.
That's why with MSFT it's VERY smart to have patience and wait on the sidelines for 6-12-18 months after a major product introduction (especially if it smells like v1 rewriting of old code that worked) until the numerous kinks and security issues are worked out. ESPECIALLY IF THE OLD STUFF "JUST WORKS"... why fix what is not broken and spend untold unpaid hours as a tester. Eventually (2009+) we will ALL be forced to upgrade when they stop supporting XP for security fixes (like they have done with W2K's upcoming DST crisis which they are not patching).
This is made more difficult by MSFT's requirement that OEMs pre-load only the newest versions for mainstream systems. But you can get around this for Dell at least the remainder of 2007... all you need to do is just click on Small Business (not Home), where you can still buy all Latitudes, Optiplexes, and Precision workstations with XP SP2 and Office 2003 and be a happy camper! Just can't get the home-style Dimensions and Inspirons with XP anymore.
So Jason... all you have to do is return the whole thing to Dell for a full refund (you are probably still in the 30-day window) and order a preloaded box with XP SP2 and Office 2003 the way you want. You'll just have to find a Precision or Latitude Notebook that is fully loaded like your Insprion XPS and your problem is solved.
Or, use this debacle as an excuse to strongly evaluate moving at least a portion of your environment to alternatives... such as Linux (Red Hat, Ubuntu, whatever) or MacOSX, OpenOffice, and Thunderbird/Firefox/etc then you will no longer be held hostage by MSFT policies. You can get the Dell "N" series machines for this and avoid the Microsoft tax on your system (they come installed with no OS or an open source OS).
By 2008, Vista and O2007 will be fairly mainstream and we will get through this phase key is to just have patience.
Also, I have to agree the MSFT shills who are just clouding legitimate discussions on blogs and wikis posing as actual users with are terrible. I like to take the fact that MSFT follows these tactics as yet another reason to take a long hard look at making sure you are strongly considering alternatives rather than just playing into their hand like lemmings every single time. The more you can extricate MSFT from your environment the more freedom you will eventually gain for your organization. You won't be able to totally rid yourself of them but they should be limited as much as possible IMHO.
And not too expensive. Now...go!
Overall, I have been very happy (all were clean installs). It has been a change to find settings and features. But after being live on Vista for about 2 months, overall I have been happy with the benefits (I do missing little things like ALT+P for making an appointment private). It is new, so caution has to be taken, with application compatibility, learning the new system, limited (although growing) amount of knowledge on Vista, etc.
However, I am not surprised that issues are encountered. This stuff is complex, and dependent on user, application, hardware, etc., interactions.
Jason Busch, Lisa Reisman, Robert 'Groby' Blum, Sam, Harique Madule, Doug, Jeff, Horace, tme - all of you have made this claim. Do you have any backing facts?
And no, I do not work for Microsoft, or own stock. I don't even root for them! It's just that FUD like this shouldn't be accepted - from MS or anyone else.
If his internal IT team is not
? Helping him manage his experience
? Working with him to identify a driver conflict
? Checking logs for clues.
? Testing the installation
? On the phone with the hardware manufacturer
where does he get assistance? Are these services no longer provided by Information Technologists?
If Dell says, the product was okay leaving here and Microsoft says the same, where does that leave end-users like Mr. Busch? Many companies are delaying Vista deployments until SR1. Some are moving forward and enjoying a great experience but how do great experiences happen? If Mr. Busch represents a constituency of end-users having a painful experience with Vista, how do they receive help with the existing product?
Presumably, many of those commenting in this blog are highly savvy technically, with knowledge and skills that can help many of us who are not so technically savvy.
Short of Mr. Busch solving his own technical problem, can anyone suggest how, why and what end users can do to get help with a Vista experience that is less than great?
I have no direct experience with your issue regarding Outlook 2007 but found this purported fix on another site:
"I just got a new Dell laptop, 2GB Ram, Centrion Duo 1.6GHZ with Vista Business and Office 2007 pre-installed.
I’ve had the same general slowness, although not the POP issue. I tried taking my .pst from 800 MB to 250 MB through archiving but it didn’t help.
Uninstalling the “Cyberlink Outlook Addin” that Dell installed worked though! I uninstalled through Control Panel. Now Outlook is pretty much like 2003, certainly it’s useable now unlike the first week of misery…
It looks like there are a variety of issues affecting Outlook 2007 but for me removing the Dell/Cyberlink addin did the trick.
One last note, before I removed the addin, I could observe Outlook cycling from 0% to about 50% CPU usage every 3-5 seconds in the Task Manager, that behavior is now gone. Maybe we can’t lay the entire blame on Microsoft but these “addin” providers need to check their work and shame on Dell for loading their systems with so much garbage. It’s my fault for not specifying a clean install I guess."
When I have more time to figure out the trouble ticket with Dell next week -- since they won't call me back -- I'll probably end of downgrading to XP and Office 2003 just to improve the performance or I'll send back the machine under the 30 day warranty. But now at least I don't have to rely on my web mail for the rest of the week. Alas, I will now say that Outlook 2007 in Safe Mode finally gives Outlook 2003 a run for its money in the speed category. Bench test, anyone?
Thanks, Ian.
And no, I am not an MS employee. And I don't use Vista. However, having read all these comments it is clear your post it unfair without an update. Others will not read down this far.
Worst case scenario is by the time you are ready to "return" to a now functional other platform like Windows and Office 2007 they will likely be useable on their "native" hardware. You should be warned though, there is a near zero defection rate from the Mac, once you have had a chance to see what a computer should work like. It's hard to downgrade once you've lived the best, so you may become one of those cult members / zealots that Windows zealots like to spew FUD about.
I think it's time to snap out of our delusion that Microsoft innovates or leads the computer industry. I really doubt they ever did!
I have recently found myself being honest instead of making lame excuses for Microsoft's continual failures. I really can't think of anything that was exciting since Windows 95. I certainly won't be going Microsoft on my next purchase.
Nearly all my tech savvy friends are constantly talking Apple and many have started to use Apple for their main computer, all of them have the aluminum laptops. Most have a Windows partition on them but never seem to run it.
Suddenly I find I really can't stand to hear all the crap (FUD I guess) that even I used to spout about Crapple. I think Microsoft has essentially been dead for a decade, to those of us who are technology leaders, looking back. When the grey beards who know nothing but Microsoft leave their top level IT positions I think it will be a Microsoft blood bath, first small to medium size companies but you'll know it's over when large corporations start wholesale switch to Apple. Unless Microsoft buys Apple I can't see how this will be avoided.
http://www.roundtripsolutions.com/blog/2007/02/19/...
I had a great experience as an early adopter of xp, and thought going to vista would be equally easy, but ..... NOT!
Ken
The clean install has not really helped much if at all! I am still unable to load my contacts or my old mail file in outlook as outlook 2007 just grinds to a halt when I do so. I am disappointed with the experience and I am considering reverting back to XP / office 2003 or sending the laptop back to Dell and buying a Mac.
I have the exact same machine -- the Dell M1210 (and I freakin love it. I traded my Macbook for it).. well, the specs are probably just below yours. I took the 2ghz with 4mb of cache and a 7200 rpm 80gb hdd. 2 gigs of ram. I absolutely love Vista and Outlook 2007 and my mailbox is huge. I have mail dating back to 1996 and my Inbox has nearly 28,000 emails. The speed is incredible..I no longer dread opening Outlook and it's way more stable when I'm not connected to the network that has the Exchange server on it.
As I do with all new machines, I formatted & installed a barebones OS..in this case, Vista Enterprise. I then proceeded to install Office 2007 (as well as SQL Server Dev, VS.Net etc).
I honestly didn't expect to love Vista but I do. I rave about it to all my colleagues and recommend it to others when appropriate (I also recommend OS X when I feel its appropriate). I'd never go back to XP (or in my case, Win2k3). Could it be something with your anti-virus?
Format and reinstall the OS. Your problem will be gone...
1. Find some who is running Vista and Office 2007 sucessfully and are using the same set of apps you will be using. Then buy the exact hardware setup they have.
2. You like to gamble and have time to swap stuff out.
I don't completely lay this balme on MS as there software will run on some machines as advertised and with good performance. However I do believe they should have made it easier for manufactures to get their end right.
There has to be something wrong when you have brand new machines from Dell, Toshiba, HP etc that crash while doing the inital setup. I noticed at the beining (of feb) we were hitting about 85% crash which has slowly come down to around 25% of the new machines having problems. (These are machines comming from OEM with all software pre loaded and they crash).
That doesn't make any sense I know, but it seems to be the case.
I need Windows for Solidworks drawings on occasion and this setup works great.
When Leopard comes out I will probably install a Windows partition and boot into it for gaming, but from what I am seeing, games are bad under Vista.
I don't think I care if the OS has more candy or not if I just want to play a game or two.
I think the OS wars are over. Mac won. I mean, I can use both (at the same time). How can you argue with that?
Vista and Office 2k7 are more responsive than their 2003 counterparts but they are also more hardware hungry. There are some glitches out there still but for the most part, they are good products on modern hardware.
...Uninstalling the “Cyberlink Outlook Addin” that Dell installed worked though! I uninstalled through Control Panel. Now Outlook is pretty much like 2003, certainly it’s useable now unlike the first week of misery…
15 machines were painfully slow with Outlook 2007.
9 machines went ok.
Problems: send/recieve, deleting messages, opening email. The cpu would spike to 100% and stay there for 10 seconds or so and then finally complete the task.
The cpu, memory, mobo and whatever had nothing to do with it since these were the same types of machines. Dual core and 2 gigs of DDR2 for all 24 of them.
The Outlook headaches showed up on XP rigs and Vista rigs, so it looks like Outlook 2007 has some bugs that "CAN" rear it's ugly head but won't always.
PS: This is why most experienced admins will NOT install software until a Service Pack or Two has been released.
http://www.yorkspace.com/pc-de-crapifier/
Slowness like that doesn't make any sense. Suspend or uninstall your antivirus program and try it again. A full fledged virus scan will still chug a dual core PC.
Much appreciated
1. NVIDIA graphics card will never support the AERO interface, this is no big deal.
2. Outlook 2007 is so slow it is untrue. I work with an OST file and Exchange. Downloading mail from a POP server takes and age and random simple tasks are infuriating. My OST is 2GB.
3. Outlook has just given up the ghost completely and I having to use Scanpst.exe to repair it. I never had to do this under XP and Office 2003.
4. Word, Excel etc seem OK
5. Vista on the whole is only marginally slower than XP
6. I need a new BIOS update as I can no longer reboot the laptop for fear of the "blue screen of death".
7. My printer has stopped working, guess I need a new driver
All in all my advice is a follows.
1. Get Vista if you are a home user with a small .PST for Outlook.
2. Only install Vista on a new PC with at least 2GB RAM and a good graphics card with over 100MB dedicated RAM.
3. If you are a business with Exchange Users using .OST file then forget it.
4. Upgrading any laptop or desktop that was previously running XP is risky. Drivers are a bit of a nightmare.
Notes on the above:
1. I am thinking about going back to XP and 2003.
2. I upgraded the operating system not a fresh install.
3. I admit my hardware is on the lower end of what Vista expects.
4. I would need to test more before I can definately put the knife in.
All in all Outlook 2007 with Exchange looks like an absolute dissaster. I had it installed on XP before I upgraded to Vista and it was worse on XP.
http://www.watchingthenet.com/windows-vista-tip-ho...
This aritcle might be related, depending on how the architecture is implemented within the laptop... worth a shot.
By the way, I have the same problem on my desktop, but I have not tried this fix yet.
---
Just for the record. I only have it because my client bought it for all of his computers and I needed to use it to have answers for him. I will get rid of this Office 2007 on my laptop soon. Somebody mentioned Open Office / Thunderbird as a replacement option for the Office. I found Open Office 2.0 to be slower than Office 2003.
Not everyone here is a MS plant obviously. If you understand business and the world at all, to think that a company like Microsoft would not have blog spinners is silly. To require proof of that is beyond rational. To assume everyone that had a good experience with Vista is paranoid though and can be counterproductive to having a real discussion, and just plays to those who would rather confuse the points. To be true, I have a few friends who have bought new notebooks recently, and those with Vista have hated it (old software investments not working, annoying and seemingly invasive popups, etc.). Those with XP have noticed the new fast hardware as they should, and not really given a "I love or hate XP".
Also, if you haven't already, please please let MS know what your problems have been. All companies, Microsoft, Apple and even the Linux developers absolutely depend on user feedback to fix and tune their software. There are a ton of things which even the most thorough testing doesn't always catch, and if people just complain about the problems in blogs but don't relate them back to those who can actually fix them, then there is less opportunity for your specific problem to be resolved, and the whole community suffers for it. I understand that from a business standpoint you have internal customers who must be served *now*, but take a moment to let MS know your troubles so that they can be helping the rest of us.
Just at this minute, removing Vista and putting XP back on.
I *may* try Vista again in 18 months.....
I bought the same computer/same conditions and got even worse results!
I have a windows PDA, and tried to sync it (windows mobile device center) with Outlook.
took microsoft 7.5 hours (no joke) online (actively driving my machine) to get a minimum level of functionality.
Wifi catcher stopped working after that: took Dell 2.5 hours to get that working. Now my DVD/CD drive stopped working! When you press the camera button Outlook launches!
The WORST piece of software ever created
I reinstalled everything and had a great day with everything working. Just before packing up I reinstalled Dell MediaDirect and immediately Outlook went slow.
This got me looking around and one tip I found was to use Control Panel to remove the program "outlookaddinsetup" by Cyberlink - this was installed with MediaDirect so far as I can tell.
Uninstall of this program has restored normality.
Shame on M$ for such a poor product overall
Shame on Dell for shipping crap software that doesn't work!
I hope this helps someone!
Why did I spend thousands of hours learning and using the previous office.....
Why did I spend thousands of dollars for books.......?
I can give you an example why the new offcie really sucks:
- If I go to your closet and take out all of my clothes out, will I make it "easier and friendly" to find the shirt that I want?
of course not... But that's exactly what Microsoft did with their menus...
thx a lot for the info...
I just uninstalled OutlookAddinSetup, and the speed gets back to normal as if I use outlook 2003.. (^_^)
but, is there another side effect for unistalling OutlookAddinSetup??
First I am running a brand new Dell XPS M1710 with 2GB RAM, Nvidia 7950GTX card, dual-core etc., etc. Very high end machine.
Unfortunately, Dell would not sell it with XP (thank you VMWARE for allowing me to run apps that are not combatible with Vista), and as I was leaving town a day after I got the machine did not have time to install XP, download all the drivers from DEll and test the environment.
On my old dimension I was running Office 2007 on XP, and had no issues and very happy.
With Vista AND Outlook 2007 I encountered the exact same issues, I would type, and letters would appear several seconds after I typed them, Outlook would hog the CPU cycles every few seconds.
I did not un-install the add-ins, but created a shortcut that starts Outlook in SAFE mode.
This solved the problem.
Exchange Cache mode is off.
Anybody have any ideas about this being the same issue, or do you think this is different?
I have two machines in my office running Vista Ent. with Office 07 and have not had the issues that other are reporting. This is on the Dell Optiplex 745 (Dual 2.4 GB processor and 2 GB of RAM and fresh loaded from scratch)
Adios.
No matter who the vendor, I would certainly try & test a new product before spending money blindly!
FYI... I have been running Outlook 2007 on Win XP Pro on a 3-year-old PC (and a 1 GB PST file) and have not had any trouble. Previously I did run the BETA version, but uninstalled it before adding the final version.
Good luck and good sense to all!!
Doug
When you installed Vista, you are fresh out of a new install/format. So things run smoother with less junk installed.
I formatted and installed Vista and office 2007 on 2 computers. 1 is a Pentium 4 3Ghz with 2GB Ram, and it runs ok. But just ok. Office crashes quite often. Especially powerpoint. Outlook at first really was unuasble, but now that it finished indexing everything, it is faster. That being said, it still is nowhere near what XP and Office 2003 were.
On my other computer Core Duo 2Ghz 1GB Ram, it is about the same speedwise.
My main problem though is Vista, which has problems constantly. Programs keep crashing, I already got the infamous BLUE screen about 4 times. With XP, I don't think I even got it 4 times in the past 5 years since it has existed. The user access cotrol is absurd. At least I didn't have to ask it permission to go to the bathroom. Microsoft and all these big companies including the media, love to scare people with all of this security crap. Sure it's important, but it's not as bad as they all claim.
As for the "Aero" crap. What is the big deal about it. So what if the frames of windows are transparent. Big woopdy doo. It slows down the machine, and its annoying because you can't always see which window you are clicking on. I switched the entire system to use "windows classic" mode so it looks more like windows 98 or 2000. Its faster that way.
There are only 3 positive things that I can say about windows vista.
1. The built in activesync.
2. Remote desktop works better.
3. Windows defender allows you to easily remove all the startup programs that every idiot software designer decides they are going to slow down your computer with. As if their software was the only software in the world.
It's time to switch back to the reliable XP.
I'm on the Outlook team at Microsoft. (That's right, I'm not just a "plant" -- I'm actually employed by them!)
We released an update recently that makes Outlook 2007 faster: http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=933493
(You can download the update directly from here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?fa...
If you're wondering what's actually in this update, the general manager from Outlook (I know him, he's a great guy) has a blog entry that gives some technical details: http://blogs.msdn.com/willkennedy/
I can't guarantee that this is going to fix all the performance problems that people are seeing, but it's made a big difference for a lot of people so I recommend giving it a try.
Hope this helps!
Andy Brauninger
Program Manager
Microsoft
I just started taking classes that will last me 6-7months for office 2003(did not have the skills before) the school is expensive too.
I don't have office 2003 on my pc at home so I will have to buy 2007 at some point.
What would you all do?
Just spend money and learn office 2003 programs, or
pull out of school and start again when the school offers office 2007?
I am not a computer person at all and am confused. I don't want to spend 3000-5000 learning office 2003 and spend 6-7 months doing it if when I finish every business will be using 2003.
Thank you soo kindly, Brenda
Response times are unacceptable. New mail just didn't even show up. Hourglass just about all the time.
Got rid of MS search as well.
Back to good old 2003.
What a mess. Just proves that if you throw money at a problem, all you get is a bigger problem. MS should be ashamed of this release.
I'm actually an MS partner - and I rang them to vent. Get this, those guys don't even use Vista or 2007 - they are still on XP and 2003. I told them they should smoke their own shit, when trying to sell their latest rubbish to their customers.
I meant to say that I did not want to spend money and 6-7 months learning office 2003, if when I finish school everyone will be using office 2007.
thanks again for all your help. Brenda
6-7 months to teach Microsoft Office? Sounds to me like either the school is trying to milk its students or is inept! Back when I was teaching University, I taught the equivalent in a single one-term course: introduction to word processing, spreadsheets, e-mail, presentations, and databases (Word, Excel, Outlook (or Entourage if you're using the Mac), Powerpoint, and Access). With the exception of Access, which requires a user to learn basic database theory (which generally takes at least a few weeks), everything else is pretty easy and the basics of each of the other applications can be learned in a week or so.
The differences between Office 2000 and Office 2003 are minimal, and the primary difference between Office 2003 and 2007 is the user interface. Once you have an understanding of the underlying functionality of an office application, the effort to switch from one to another is minimal.
As for the course taking so long, it is a school where you learn at your own pace, and I guess they just allow that time frame to learn it.
Thanks, I will trust you because I keep reading 2007 is quite different. thanx
I'm glad to hear it's a "learn at your own pace" course and they allow for students who cannot commit a minimal amount of time each week, because, with the exception of Access (which has it's own take on visual queries, the SQL standard, and database file structures, and can be a pain if you're used to a database that more closely follows the open standards), most standard business applications are rather straight-forward.
The best course to take really depends on what version of Office you believe you will spend the majority of your time using for the first year or two. Although all modern word processors, spreadsheets, and e-mail programs do have the same basic functionality, the UIs differ slightly from application to application and version to version and productivity in such applications only reaches a peak when you know not only what all the features are but where they are and how to access them.
Microsoft is notorious for changing the locations, and sometimes even the names, of features from one version to the next. Last three times I upgraded office (97 to 2000, 2000 to 2003, 2003 to 2004 on the Mac) it took me about a week to get used to the new menu locations / short cuts for some of the features I used regularly. And now in Office 2007 for Vista, they have developed the concept of the "ribbon", which although really just a "dynamic toolbar" in implementation, sounds like it can be quite annoying since the location of an option on the ribbon will change as it "learns" which features you use the most. (I'm not too sure why the ability to create a custom toolbar is not good enough, but this is Microsoft, trying to outdo a Mac on usability, which is something they'll probably never do because they are years behind and only succeed at building bigger and bigger bloatware.) So, you will have to memorize feature name, menu location, and icon and either get used to the potential dynamic placement on the ribbon, or learn how to master the customization options (which were daunting enough for a first time user even in Office 2003, with about a dozen tabs in the primary Options pane alone).
So, in summary, if you focus on learning the fundamentals, you will be able to switch from Office 2003 to Office 2007 on your own, as long as you understand it might take a week or so to get used to the new UI and memorize the easy access shortcuts to the features you use the most (and that you might have to spend some time searching and reading the help to find the major differences), and could be a good idea if you think you might have to use 2003 for a while, but if you believe you're only going to be using Office 2007, it might be worthwhile finding a course that is based on that version of the software.
I feel I might get screwed because the school that I am going to says " businesses won't change to 2007 until at least next year." I was going to pay for my course as I go so I am not commited. Its private school and it 299 for level 1 courses and 329 for level 2/3 courses ex. windows 1, windows 2. So if I take windows, word, excel its going to cost me over $2000. God I am computer illiterate so I don't even know if I should bother with 2003 or if I should back out and wait until schools start teaching 2007.
Lord, I just don't want to waste money.
I am taking computer courses so that I can get a job after.
Michael, Do you think that businesses will still be using 2003 for a while? I know that you can't predict that, but I wonder if its the norm for companies to keep using the older version, or give in and always upgrade every time microsoft introduces a new version.
Sorry for bothering you with my worries.
Thanks again, you are reallly helping me out.
I guess what I want to know, if you were in my shoes,
wanting to learn office programs to get a job, would you spend $2000 on learning office 2003 right now, (thinking that some companies still may be using it) or would you just wait a while and go to school to learn the office 2007?
Thanks, Brenda
P1.87 Duo with 2GB of RAM (Vista Home Pre).
Some things I noted about Vista:
- want to copy and paste from one program to another (email to word, or webpage to outlook), whatever is in ram is lost unless you open the other program first and then copy and paste.
- my hard drive is also constantly doing something - indexing?
- try to have the folders all look the same, and constantly telling explorer list view.
- open windows explorer and always pausing while it loads windows live and then shows hard drives.
- when looking on the network, always having to wait while it loads the computer icons of all the other computers - one at a time.
- windows explorer - where did the cut copy and paste icons go
- change the keyboard from english canada to english us and still get french characters even after a reboot like ééÉ```>
Office ribbons. Give me a break, what a waste of real estate. Highlight a row and a pop up mini-toolbar gets in the way all the time when I want to right click and copy it.
Customize your own toolbar at the very top. Icons small, can`t rearrange
Where did print preview go - button, print, print preview.
Vista and office are starting to look more like the Son of ME.
The majority of companies wait at least a year to upgrade to new versions of windows and office, and many mid-size companies take two or three years - often waiting until Microsoft announces that they are going to drop support for the version of Microsoft they are going to use. The reason for this is that upgrades are costly and good IT departments realize it's best to wait until a few service packs of bug fixes have been released.
If you're looking for a job now, you could also consider a split approach - take a couple of couses now to learn the basics (windows, e-mail, and word), and then take more courses later when the new version comes out. I would expect that some schools would offer "upgrade" courses - i.e. shorter courses if you already know the previous version.
Furthermore, once you know the basics of one office 2003 product, you might find that you can migrate to 2007 on your own using the materials Microsoft provides in its Microsoft Office 2007 Learning Portal:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/office2007/defau...
Also, the major changes between 2003 and 2007 are summarized by Microsoft here:
http://technet2.microsoft.com/Office/en-us/library...
You could also supplement these materials with books from Microsoft on 2007, that they are starting to release, such as:
http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Office-Outlook-200...=cm_syf_dtl_txt_11/102-2521786-8587342/102-2521786-8587342
And a few online only schools are starting to offer 2007 courses:
http://www.teachmeit.com/tmit/cobrand/office2007.a...
( ... which could potentially be used as "upgrade courses" )
It's your choice. Some companies will upgrade quickly ... but many won't. And it's hard to say which will and which won't. You might ask your schools when they plan to offer the new courses. If they are on the schedule in the (very) near future (say a couple of months), then it might be worth waiting. If it's going to be a while, I would seriously think about taking some courses to master the basics, and then, when you have a job, you could afford cheaper upgrade courses and upgrade materials when, and if, you needed them.
Michael
I was having a nightmare with Vista and Outlook. Brand new Dell Inspriron 640 with 512 ram, now upgraded to 1.5gb. But still Outlook was running very slow. I had imported over 8 eight years of email from a Windows98/Office2000. The new Dell/Vista/Outlook2007 was running like a dog -100 times slowly than my 8 year old PC!!! I was going mad - with no help from Dell.
I have now disabled "Outlookaddins" and "Google Desktop" from the Tools / Trust Centre and now all is running much better.
Thanks for the advice.